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Re: [css-d] OT: Lack of Knowledge and the Web Factory

Sent by Simon Seeber on 29 January 2002 21:09

>Are we worse off for having visual page layout tools or should we go back to
>hand coding PostScript?
>Are we worse off for having visual movie editing tools or should we go back
>to green-on-black terminals?
>Are we worse off for having GUIs or should we all go back to the dark ages
>of the CLI?

All of these things have been around for a long time and have been 
refined to the point where it is not necesary to hand code anymore.
They also output to a fixed media.
The web on the other hand is young and dynamic. It is still growing 
and changing.
The GUI based tools can't keep up.

>Do you think you'd even have a job currently as a web developer if it hadn't
>been for the proliferation of visual tools that fueled the critical mass of
>the HTML universe we have today?

FWIW I got my start at hand coding by using GUI tools

>Are you suggesting that people don't generate feeble code when not using
>visual tools?

No I must some really dense mistakes some times, but then I know how 
to fix them once I find them.

>Do you think CSS has any chance of getting traction without visual tools
>making it easier for designers and others to adopt it?

No I don't. The GUI tools don't promote CSS based layout, the 
continue to encourage people to design the way the always have, with 
This is mostly because the rendering engines of the GUI tools cannot 
render CSS layouts correctly. Any layout that i have created by hand 
and have opened in DW has been a mess, even though it validates and 
renders fine in all the target browsers.
How are people going to be able to design with CSS and be convinced 
that it is a good thing, if the tools make a huge mess of it?

Also people using GUI tools generally don't have a very good 
understanding of how HTML and CSS works because the aren't dealing 
with it. The are also limited to the parts that the GUI implements, 
they don't all implement 100% of HTML CSS -P -1 -2 etc.
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