From: "Angus McIntyre" [EMAIL-REMOVED]> >Thank you; I guess it's time to go back to the drawing board. What do the backgrounds of the elements you removed the borders from look like? Are they solid colors? Could you use a border the same color as the background color? Have you tried using a small padding value instead? Your problem sounds like it may be a case of collapsing margins, which both padding and/or border can generally deal with. http://www.andybudd.com/archives/2003/11/no_margin_for_error/ hth, ~holly ______________________________________________________________________ css-discuss [EMAIL-REMOVED]] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/