this works for me: http://devnull.tagsoup.com/fixed/ (a dang fine site is that tagsoup) Just apply the techniques shown to your footer, as well. It's not completely painless but... brian ally ______________________________________________________________________ css-discuss [EMAIL-REMOVED]] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/