Sent by Paul Menard on 9 December 2004 17:05
I would also be sure and read Zeldman's 'Designing with Web Standards'
http://www.zeldman.com/dwws/ For me it was this book that uncovered the why of moving tables to
CSS for use on other devices besides just a computer monitor. On Zeldman's site,
http://www.zeldman.com/ you can get up to date design information and comments along with his
other site, http://www.alistapart.com/
Also, Eric Meyer is considered by many (including myself) to be THE CSS guru. I have learned so
much from his 2 book 'Eric Meyer on CSS' and 'More Eric Meyer on CSS'. Eric is not a militant on
the CSS vs. Table point. But he can show you ways to present data in CSS that is impossible in
HTML tables only.
My 2-cents.
Paul
--- Ryan Cannon [EMAIL-REMOVED]> wrote:
> You're probably going to receive a flurry of email from CSS militants
> with their hackles up and their torches and pitchforks at the ready, so
> I'll be brief and polite.
>
> It is true, that CSS design is more complicated than a table-based
> approach. It is also true that support for the most complex designs is
> quite difficult. However, this is largely because CSS designs offer much
> more flexibility and power for designers, and for users they help assure
> that web pages can be accessed by more than just the computer screen
> (i.e. assistive software, in print, mobile phones...the list is growing
> very quickly). CSS is also far easier to maintain than a table-based
> structure, and is considerably leaner for a site. When bandwidth=money,
> this can make thousands of dollars in difference for companies sporting
> large, in-depth web sites.
>
> As a text for your class, I recommend Dan Cederholm's "Web Standards
> Solutions: The Markup and Style Handbook." It is an excellent work that
> encompasses the tried-and-true methods of CSS layout that any designer
> should have on hand. It's also much more readable than an O'Riley guide.
>
> Some web sites you might also find helpful:
> www.glish.com/css/ - this is the mother-lode of CSS layouts.
> www.csszengarden.com - if you need convincing about the power of CSS,
> here it is. This site demonstrates the unbelievable flexibility and
> beauty of CSS.
> www.alistapart.com - "for people who make web sites" offers a lot of
> tips, tricks and theoretical arguments for standards-based design.
>
> CSS is going to be the web presentation method for the (forseable)
> future. As an instructor, consider arming your students with the tools
> that will be in demand for the future--not those that are slowly dying.
> If you have any futher questions please feel free to contact me
> --
>
> Ryan Cannon
> Instructional Technologist
> Alma College
> Freelance Web Design
> RyanCannon.com <http://ryancannon.com/?refer=email>
> (989) 463-7060
>
> > I am really trying to adopt the css layout method for designing sites,
> > but I'm one 'refresh' away from scrapping the whole idea. Every time
> > I approach the layout of a site using <div> and css it takes me way to
> > long to finally get the layout to work as I intend. The site I am
> > designing now is going to be a resource site for a university web
> > design course. I am a big believer in separating structure from
> > presentation and this model is stressed in the course. However, I am
> > finding it very difficult to practice this model when I can't even lay
> > the foundation for a site design. Moreover, how am I suppose to teach
> > this model to future web designers when it is not a reliable method.
> > I hate to use nested tables and get into all that, but the one
> > positive about using tables is that... they work. So... if CSS is
> > intended to handle the presentation of a site, why is it so difficult
> > to render the layout properly? and if CSS is intended to tackle the
> > visual presentation of a site why aren't there intuitive visual
> > editing options as opposed to entering text manually and reloading to
> > "see" the changes?
> >
> > I have read all the articles and been to all the blogs on layout and
> > positioning, its not helping. What I need are tried and true layout
> > templates so myself and the class can get busy being designers. Are
> > there any sites stocked with layout templates that work?
> >
> > Thank you
>
>
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