Thanks to everyone for their input. I am closer now, but am still stuck. The challenge: to redo all-javascript menus seen here http://carnegie.mxdev.matrixgroup.net/ in some CSS/js supported version. Changing the info arch is desirable but not an option in this situation. Here is what I have now, along with problems in browsers/platforms I have access to: http://carnegie.mxdev.matrixgroup.net/index.cfm?fa=home2 stylesheet: http://carnegie.mxdev.matrixgroup.net/stylesheets/nav_back.css nav html: http://carnegie.mxdev.matrixgroup.net/nav.cfm (used as include in main file; this is less cluttered to look at) PC: FF1.0: looks ok, some odd spacing on second level, probably can be tweaked with custom widths IE 6.0: pretty much same as FF NS 7.1: 2nd level goes way out to left. this is due to negative start values i have, but when I remove them, others are messed up. 3rd level fine Mac: safari 1.2.1 second levels do not go across on one line, except (mysteriously) under Resources. third level works fine. firefox 0.8 acceptable. spacing a little strange. ie mac 5.2 unavailable. am curious to see; want to work there too. I used a version of son of suckerfish supported by a project Kir sent me at http://www.stone-env.com/. Am I wishing for the impossible--cross-browser rendering? Anyone care to pitch in some ideas? I feel that I'm so close, but this last mile looks endless. --Lisa ______________________________________________________________________ css-discuss [EMAIL-REMOVED]] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/