Michael, your div.clearer has a font-size: 1px; I think this is "to small" for <div class="clearer"> </div> a font-size: 2px will be better to prevent collapsing margins (Moz 1.7Win). personally, I use font-size: 1pt; in my clearfloat If I'm not wrong, Zoe did make a test case on this. Ingo Chao ______________________________________________________________________ css-discuss [EMAIL-REMOVED]] http://www.css-discuss.org/mailman/listinfo/css-d List wiki/FAQ -- http://css-discuss.incutio.com/ Supported by evolt.org -- http://www.evolt.org/help_support_evolt/