Gosh I hope all of you don't mind, but a lot of what you are talking about, even your answers, blow my mind away. I haven't really programmed since Fortran and COBOL, back in college 18 years ago. Somehow I made it through Eric's class at hwg but it was a struggle. How many of you have a programming background or how important would you say it is to have that to actually understand a lot of the more advanced CSS stuff? Judy Benedict